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All-Stars 2016 Retrospective

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Shattered Rift

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I'm still stunned that the game ended with a full team claim. As an MC, your perspective is always different from the players. Why did so-and-so do this? How can't so-and-so see that? Why isn't so-and-so using my role the way it was intended? How are the innocents so blind? Why isn't something really obvious being considered?

I'll only comment on a few odd gameplay points and decisions, particularly those by players who I don't think will mind. First, however, I think my time would be best spent explaining the methodology and set-up.

Design

For All-Stars, I knew that I needed to host an all-roles game. Most of you are well aware that I prefer plain innocents due to old problems with role trading and role-chains where innocent players rapidly learn everyone else's claims and kill off players based on the knowledge gained.

During the very first All-Stars game on IDB in 2005, the innocents won with the loss of a single life (the player Hypocritical, who had a counter-kill power that was triggered by his execution that ended up killing a baddie). During the Nights, baddie crossfire claimed the lives of other baddies, and role trading and innocent coordination took care of the rest. It was a massacre and arguably the most one-sided Werewolf game in our history.

This historical point, combined with a string of Werewolf games on Sparkbomb with similar results during 2006, have always led me to prefer a higher percentage of baddies than others. The common 33% number is one I perceive as a minimum in such games. Additional teams raise that percentage higher, and I would argue that it should be upwards of 50%. A game with four or more nightkills might well go above that, but that's a discussion for another time.

Going from the anecdotal to the analytical, baddies perform their best by assisting the innocent town. The chance of crossfire between baddie teams will commonly result in baddie deaths. Daytime communication also assists the innocent cause and is more likely to result in a baddie execution than might be expected from the numbers. Furthermore, any baddies with investigative powers will typically end up assisting in this as well.

Beyond that, my greatest influence is probably Neopetsmom's games. She has a very distinct approach to her set-ups, and her frequent hosting makes it easy to consider how different mechanics she uses are perceived in our metagame. I'm glad that my preferences are so different from hers, because I think a diversity in games leads to better games and experiences all-around.

The key points I differ on from her are disliking the random factor (which she commonly includes in the form of shields). I also prefer game pacing to be maintained. In other words, I dislike protects and execution stops. The simple difference means I tend to enact protections that skip the protected target, and I prefer execution redirects rather than execution stops.

In particular, I recall her Return to Form a year and a half ago where I was on a baddie team where my teammate Cel was up for execution. We knew the identity of one of the innocent players. We had an execution stop that we used to save Cel, but it was ultimately a futile gesture and did nothing for us. In that moment, I wished we had an execution redirect that might have come at the cost of our nightkill that cycle. To my recollection, the innocent was shielded from our attack and we promptly lost.

In another of NPM's games, there was a lost of list manipulation going on and we weren't told who we targeted unless we had an investigative role. I think I was a baddie in this game as well (though I don't recall anymore), and not being able to keep my lie straight was infuriating because I had no idea what I had actually done.

I'd like to emphasize that I have the utmost respect for NPM. I look upon these experiences as positive ones because they shaped my design for this game more than anyone else, except for Rex (who helpfully edited this game from its potential disaster state into what I consider my best designed game).

Coming into this game, I wanted my players to feel enabled to make plays. To be certain about what their powers were capable of and what they were doing. A certain amount of secrecy is always needed in this regard, as you can't let a player know how someone else's power interfered, but I had hoped that players learning who their targets ended up being would avoid confusion.

I also wanted the game to be one of investigation. It should be well known that I think the standard dreamer role is overpowered. I also obviously didn't want to risk a role-chain of old. This came together in a number of interestingways in the design.

I wasn't certain how many players to expect for All-Stars, but I was hoping for between twenty and thirty. I created a rough outline of games at different player counts, and ultimately hit a “sweet spot” of sorts at 22. If we had hit high-twenties, I would have included a Spectre team.

This game started with an idea for an OMT that would become a two-man team, the Master and Apprentice. The Master would be able to recruit (convert) a single Apprentice from the innocents. If a player could not be converted, they would be killed instead. The Master could always opt to kill instead of convert during a night. And the Master could not be killed during the Night. If an Apprentice was killed, the Master could recruit a new one.

The Phoenix team was given a triad of manipulation powers and the ability to choose which of their team performed the nightkill each night. A single conversion rounded out their ability to manipulate the game.

The Werewolf team was designed fairly standard, with the addition of a Tracker. I was worried that the team members would be easily discovered and defeated, so I gave them four members and a Traitor. To keep investigation as an active part of the game, they were given both a daykill and an execution redirect, neither of which would be explicitly evil in the plot. The innocents had corresponding powers.

I allowed both the Phoenix and Werewolf teams to decide which of their players would get which roles. This felt like a fun addition to further empower the players.

The decision to include 9 evil players out of 22, plus an expected 2 conversions (or more depending on how things went for the Master), was intentional. In retrospect, I didn't consider the number of executions the innocents had available to them, and a revision of this game would either remove the execution redirect from the Werewolf Team or make their daykill come at the cost of performing a nightkill. From a numbers standpoint, I would also probably place the Phoenix nightkill before the Werewolf nightkill.

With three baddie teams, I anticipated crossfire, and I anticipated a high death count. They were counterbalanced in the forms of standard protectors, a jailer, a multiple-use necormancer, and the multiple-use heir. The bind power was a bit of a wildcard, but it was softer than a doubler.

I wanted this game to be one of investigation, so I tried to make my innocent roles as non-standard as possible. I tested out two new types of dreamers, the informant and receiver duo, and the baton dreamers duo. While this risked the possibility of two pairs of players clearing each other and uniting via their knowledge, it allowed a way to break the dreamers and limit the number of dreams that would occur in the game.

The Respawner (necromancer) was given the ability to sustain one resurrected player at a time, and he could switch that resurrection to another player with the limitation that each player could only be resurrected once. The Ban Hammer (jailer) lacked the usual evidence to back the claim and was also given a daykill. I excluded the Day aspect of the jail simply because I dislike taking a player out of the game, and it would have created a way to disrupt the few day powers. The Looter (gravedigger/heir) might appear to be an OMT. The Pyromaniac Runner was a combination of commuter and bodyguard. And a Binder is fairly uncommon. The Spectre (tracker/dreamer) was included to help offset the fragility of the dreamers.

Meanwhile, the bus driver was evil. There was both an evil disabler and an innocent jailer. And there was an evil tracker. A mass claim would likely get some players killed, but I expected there to be a lot of doubt all around.

In retrospect, at 22 players, I would have dropped the Baron Werewolf (Daykill/Execution Redirect) and given those powers to the Fang Werewolf (starting spokeswolf). I might have dropped the execution redirect and modified the daykill to come at the cost of the nightkill. Perhaps a second daykill (not usable on the same day) would offset this properly. And, in place of the fifth Werewolf, I would separate the daykill power from the jailer and create a vigilante. However, I would certainly keep the existing number of werewolves if a 23rd player was added.

The decision to reveal only alignment upon death was made late into the process. Innocents have a natural advantage with more information, which is also the reason I don't reveal role names to players in my games. This placed an increased importance on the Looter, who not only learned role names but also learned the exact power of innocent players as they died (with the exception of the Respawner).

The decision to include nobody votes (a staple of All-Stars) came spur of the moment when I created the game thread, and between that adjustment and miscommunication with Rex I botched one small detail: the Traitor vote negation.

Rex had assumed that the vote negation would be public and that the Traitor, not the Werewolf Team, would be told it existed. I had not properly separated it in my notes and informed the werewolves, and I had also made it not appear to the players. In a game with nobody votes, it was incredibly powerful on Day 1. In retrospect, I agree with Rex's assessment completely.

The role names were one of the last things I thought of for several roles (including finalizing a few as players died). Using role names to confirm/refute truth is something I destest in gameplay, and therefore role names were not revealed to the players at the start of the game. Both Baton Dreamers were intentionally given the role name “Baton” and both protectors were intentionally given the generic “Protector” to further limit information revealed on death (provided the Looter was killed and role names were revealed publicly). In retrospect, I should have had the Phoenix names specify team as well as the Werewolves, as players familiar with Sparkbomb lore would have an advantage. Lastly, anyone converted by the Phoenixes would gain the prefix “Recruited ” to their role name, and anyone converted by the Master would gain “Apprentice ” to theirs.

Gameplay

The role assignment was as follows...

 

Player Name Team/Common Role Role Name

RocktheFox Phoenix Pariah

spiritbox Phoenix Covert Operative

Sinical Phoenix Executive

Celairiel Werewolf Matriarch

Blacjak Werewolf Fang

Meta Werewolf Baron

thezodiac Werewolf Optic

Voce Angeli Werewolf Traitor

lion wiggles Master Master

InuyashaOhki Tracker/Dreamer Spectre

Neopetsmom Dreamer Baton

Steev Dreamer Baton

Liz Dreamer Informant

Trajectory Dreamer Receiver

weee5067 Phoenix Protector Protector

thelilbear Werewolf Protector Protector

Red Necromancer Respawner

Lieutenant-colonel Franc Gravedigger/Heir Looter

Silver Pyromaniac Runner Pyromaniac Runner

Zen Governor Tagger

Zilary Jailer/Vigi Ban Hammer

Qanda Binder Binder

 

When I saw the randomizer pair Celairiel, Blacjak, and Voce, I nearly rerolled. I knew that Blacjak would be visiting them during the game, and this was a roll that could be perceived as favoritism. Meanwhile, Sinical had control of a trio of manipulation powers, and RocktheFox was with him. I wasn't sure what to make of Lion Wiggles with the Master role. Lastly, with Silver in the Pyromanic Runner role, I suspected she would never use the intercept power to take a hit for someone.

There's a moment of fear and doubt that comes before you trust your players to make the best with the set-up you've created for them. The rest would be up to how the game went.

I was simultaneously disappointed and relieved when a werewolf went down Night 1. Disappointed that Lion hadn't opted for the conversion (which would have still resulted in a kill), and relieved because Voce was destined to unite with her team by Day 2 and upset the expected balance. Sometimes games correct themselves, and this was one of those times.

Then there were the unexpected things. I don't know why Sinical claimed dreamer. I assume he thought others would remember my dislike of neutrals. I don't know why Lion opted for a kill first convert later approach. I didn't expect Franc to keep to himself so much (or to misunderstand his role and not spend more time using powers). Nor am I certain what Zen's strategy was in framing players with his messages. (He was disabled on Night 1 when he planned to incriminate Liz.)

Nor did I expect for three dreamers to go down on Night 2.

Night was always interesting to resolve, and coming down with a headcold on Day 2 didn't help. I don't think I have ever needed to use Excel previously to resolve a game's events, but it was quite welcome and necessary in this one. The most entertaining moment of the game, from an MC standpoint, was probably when Franc used the execution redirect to kill RocktheFox, maintaining Sinical's bus drive for the night, which caused the Phoenixes to recruit Silver instead of Weee. Bad luck just kept following them throughout the entire game.

Also, Rock's PMs in team chat were hilarious. What he lacked on thread in the early game was more than made up for in PMs. And then he started giving it to us on the thread, too!

The mark of a successful game, to me, is how closely a game pushes towards a Final Day of three players, one of whom is the last surviving baddie in a situation where neither innocent is sure who they can trust. Watching this game play out, with the apparent assumption that there was no more than three teams of three, I worried that the four living werewolves would suddenly take the game and cause a tremendous upset. It was a relief when Red being daykilled, Weee's imprisonment, and the werewolves killing Silver all came together to result in Voce's death. At that point, the game had course-corrected itself for a second time and created an exciting late-game balance. If the remaining werewolves won, they would have earned it completely. If the game pushed further, excitement would simply continue longer.

At the end of the game, there were a few remaining factors in play. Zilary could daykill a Werewolf and shift the ratio, or she could imprison Blacjak and prevent a kill. Or Lilbear could protect someone, provided she didn't get disabled.

As for the ending itself, it should serve as a cautionary tale to never reveal your hand until you've won. Not just when you think you're going to win.

 

It was an absolute treat to host this year's All-Stars game, headcold and all. Thank you everyone for providing a wonderful experience, and here's hoping those of you that died early this year make a comeback and snag next game.

Priority and Roles

Priority was as follows...

 

Commute – Pyro

Jail

Disable – Wolf

Intercept – Pyro

Bus Drive – Phoenix

Bind

List Replace – Phoenix

List Swap – Phoenix

Kill – Master

Protect – Anti-Wolf

Kill – Wolf

Protect – Anti-Phoenix

Kill – Phoenix

Dream – Baton A

Dream – Baton B

Dream – Informant

Dream – TrackDream

Dream – Traitor

Convert – Master

Convert – Phoenix

Resurrect

Track – Wolf

Track – TrackDream

Message

 

A lot of this is fairly standard Disable → Manipulate → Protect / Kill → Dream → Convert → Resurrect → Track. The most important point to mention is that events always resolved in this order. In addition, invalid targets would be removed from lists when it came time to resolve (so if a Bus Drive had swapped an Innocent with a Werewolf, the Werewolf Kill would simply skip the Werewolf and go onto the next target). This appears to have caused some confusion on Night 2(?) when Sinical swapped himself with Lion and everyone assumed powers that targeted Sinical were scrambled rather than bus driven.

 

Roles were as follows... (There may be a few minor errors about targeting and such that were clarified in later PMs. None of the dreamers can self-target, for example.)

---

Phoenix Team

Alignment: Evil

Win Condition: Eliminate all other players.

Team Members: RocktheFox, spiritbox, Sinical

 

Team Powers

Role SelectionBefore Night 1, you may choose which team member gains which role powers between List Replace, List Swap, and Bus Drive. Each of you must gain one. In other words, you get to choose from among your team's roles.

Kill – Each Day, submit a list of five (5) names. The topmost living player will be killed. Also, in addition to this list, you must include the name of one of your team members. This player will be the one to perform the kill. This power cannot be used against one of your team members.

Convert – You may submit a list of six (6) names. At the end of Night, the topmost living player will be converted to your team. In most cases, that player will retain their original power(s). Note that not all players may be converted. Your team's Kill power cannot be used on the Night this power is used. This power can only be used once.

 

Role Powers

List Replace – Each Day, you may submit two lists, the first with three (3) names (your target) and the second with six (6) names (their new target). This power cannot target your teammates, and it cannot target the same players that either the List Replace or List Swap powers targeted on the previous Night. The topmost valid target on your first list will have their night list replaced with the names on your second list.

List SwapEach Day, you may submit two lists of three (3) names each. This power cannot target your teammates, and it cannot target the same player that either the List Swap or List Replace powers targeted on the previous Night. The topmost valid target on each list will have their lists swapped for that Night. This power can only affect one list that a player would submit.

Bus DriveEach Day, you may submit two lists of three (3) names each. All powers that would affect the topmost valid target will be shifted to the topmost valid target on the other list and vice versa. (All powers that would target Player A will affect Player B, and all powers that would affect Player B will affect Player A.) Note that this power cannot cause powers to be used on invalid targets.

---

Werewolf Team

Alignment: Evil

Win Condition: Eliminate all other players.

Team Members: Celairiel, Blacjak, Meta, thezodiac, -Unknown Traitor-

 

Team Power

Role SelectionBefore Night 1, you may choose which team member gains which role powers between Kill, Disable, Daykill and Execution Redirect (both of these powers come together), and Track. Each of you must gain one. In other words, you get to choose from among your team's roles.

Vote ManipulationAt execution, if any Werewolves have voted for the Traitor, their votes will be removed. The true vote count will not be revealed, but an announcement will be made that the votes were manipulated. This power will only occur once for each Werewolf.


Role Powers

KillEach Day, submit a list of four (4) names. The topmost living player will be killed. This power cannot be used against one of your team members. If the player controlling the Kill power dies, surviving werewolves may choose which among them Heirs it (including the Traitor once he/she unites with you).

-

DisableEach Day, you may submit a list of two (2) names. The topmost valid target will be prevented from using powers that Night. This power cannot target the same player on consecutive Nights.

-

DaykillBefore nightfall, you may submit a list of one (1) name. That player will be killed immediately prior to execution. (Their vote will also be removed.) This power will kill in the same manner as execution. This power can only be used once.

Execution RedirectBefore nightfall, you may submit a list of one (1) name. Regardless of the vote count, that player will be executed. Your team's Kill power cannot be used on the Night this power is used. This power can only be used once.

-

TrackEach Day, you may submit a list of six (6) names. You will learn who the topmost valid target ended up targeting that Night.

---

(Traitor)

Werewolf Team

Alignment: Evil

Win Condition: Eliminate all other players.

Team Members: -Unknown Number and Identities-, Voce Angeli

Dream Muddling – You will not be dreamt as a Werewolf unless you are the final living Werewolf.

Dream – Each Day, you may submit a list of six (6) players. You will learn whether or not the topmost valid target is a Werewolf or not. The first time you dream a Werewolf, you will be united with your team.

Heir – You will inherit the power(s) of the first Werewolf to die. You cannot inherit the Kill power in this manner.

---

(Master)

Alignment: Evil

Win Condition: Eliminate all other players.

KillEach Day, you may submit a list of three (3) players. The topmost valid target will be killed. You cannot use this power on the same Night that you use the Convert power or if the Protect power is triggered.

ConvertEach Day, you may submit a list of six (6) players. If the topmost valid target can be converted, they will join your team. If they cannot be converted, you will Kill them instead. In most cases, a converted player will retain their original power(s). You may only have one convert at a time.

ProtectIf you would be attacked at Night, you will be skipped on the relevant list(s). You will be informed if this power is triggered. You may not Kill or Convert on the same Night that this power is triggered.

---

(Spectre)

Alignment: Innocent

Track – On each odd-numbered Day, you may submit a list of six (6) names. You will learn who the topmost valid target ended up targeting that Night.

Dream – On each even-numbered Day, you may submit a list of six (6) players. You must also choose Werewolf or Phoenix. You will learn whether or not the topmost valid target is on the chosen team or not.

---

(Baton A)

Alignment: Innocent

Dream – On each odd-numbered Day, you may submit a list of six (6) players. The next Day, your partner will learn whether or not the topmost valid target is a Werewolf or not. The day after, you will learn the result of your dream and their dream. If your partner dies, your power will return results for you the following Day without the delay. (You are A and your partner is B. On Day 1, you target X. On Day 2, B will learn whether or not X is a Werewolf. B then targets Y. On Day 3, you will learn whether or not X is a Werewolf and whether or not Y is a Werewolf.)

---

(Baton B)

Alignment: Innocent

Dream – On each even-numbered Day, you may submit a list of six (6) players. The next Day, your partner will learn whether or not the topmost valid target is a Werewolf or not. The day after, you will learn the result of your dream and their dream. If your partner dies, your power will return results for you the following Day without the delay. (You are B and your partner is A. On Day 1, A targets X. On Day 2, you will learn whether or not X is a Werewolf. You then target Y. On Day 3, your partner will learn whether or not X is a Werewolf and whether or not Y is a Werewolf.)

---

(Informant)

Alignment: Innocent

Dream – Each Day, you may submit a list of six (6) players. The following morning, your partner will learn whether or not the topmost valid target is a Phoenix.

---

(Receiver)

Alignment: Innocent

Dream – Each Night, your partner will target a player. On the following Day, you will learn whether or not that target is a Phoenix.

---

(Phoenix Protector)

Alignment: Innocent

Protect – Each Day, you may submit a list of five (5) players. If the topmost valid target would be killed by the Phoenixes, the Phoenix attack will be negated for that Night. Both you and the Phoenixes will be notified that a successful Protect was used.

---

(Werewolf Protector)

Alignment: Innocent

Protect – Each Day, you may submit a list of four (4) players. If the topmost valid target would be killed by the Werewolves, the Werewolf attack will be negated for that Night. Both you and the Werewolves will be notified that a successful Protect was used. This power cannot target the same player on consecutive Nights.

---

(Respawner)

Alignment: Innocent

Resurrect – Each Day, you may submit a list of one (1) dead innocent. At the end of Night, that player will be resurrected. If a resurrected player is killed, they cannot be resurrected again. This power can only resurrect each player once. This power can only allow one resurrected player to live at a time. If you use this power while a resurrected player is alive, that player will die and the new target will be resurrected.

---

(Looter)

Alignment: Innocent

Gravedigger – You will learn the role name of each player as they die. If you die, future deaths will have their role names revealed publicly. You will also learn most of the power(s) of each innocent player as they die. Note that not all powers will be revealed to you.

Heir – When an innocent player dies, you may choose to inherit their power(s). You can only possess the power(s) of one player at a time.

---

(Pyromaniac Runner)

Alignment: Innocent

Run Away – You may cause all powers that would target you to be skipped during the Night. This power cannot be used on consecutive Nights.

Intercept – You may submit a list of one (1) player. During the Night, any powers that would target that player will target you instead.

---

(Moderator)

Alignment: Innocent

Message – Each Day, you may submit a message. That message will be posted anonymously the following morning (regardless of whether or not you live to see it).

Tie-Breaker – Before nightfall, you may submit the name of one (1) player. If the execution is a tied vote and includes the targeted player, that player will be executed.

Execution Redirect – Before nightfall, you may submit a list of one (1) name. Regardless of the vote count, that player will be executed. This power can only be used once.

---

(Ban Hammer)

Alignment: Innocent

Imprison – Each Day, you may submit a list of two (2) names. The topmost valid target will be unable to use their powers, and the imprisoned player to be skipped on all lists. This power cannot target the same player on consecutive Nights.

Daykill – Before nightfall, you may submit a list of one (1) name. That player will be killed immediately prior to execution. (Their vote will also be removed.) This power will kill in the same manner as execution. This power can only be used once.

---

(Binder)

Alignment: Innocent

Bind – Each Day, you may submit two lists of three (3) names each. All powers that would affect the topmost valid target of the first list will also affect the topmost valid target of the second list. (All powers that would affect A will also affect B.)


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One thing I did forget to mention: it was very important to me that all of the innocent roles have nightly-use powers, particularly in the event that they were converted. It was quite the struggle to come up with so many without relying more heavily on one of my game mechanics, such as the lack of information revealed on death.

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Nice approach. Just a tiny comment about randomness - I also prefer not using shields. I don't strongly oppose it either, maybe it works here and there. I've just always felt Shields are unfair, and awkward. I think there are two types of randomness. Randomness created by the player(player actions) and randomness created by the MC(game design). 

In many other types of games - like card games - the dice roll aspect is usually used as some sort of gamble mechanic. This is usually enacted by the player, not the MC. Even when in this case where it is used by the player, it is used to a minimum.

I believe the reason this is used to a mimumium is because: 

  • The game doesn't lose all strategic/controlling (a.k.a. skill) elements. (maintains value of player actions.)
  • Having some amount of gambling gives the game flavor and excitement.
  • It also serves as a good come-back mechanic so that the losing team has a random chance of gaining an advantage. 

Shields, a dice roll that is enacted by a player targeting a player doesn't seem like a mechanic activated by a player - more of a passive. But it is activated by a player targeting another. How it is activated is awkward, which is why I think it is okay in some cases. I don't think it is good if half the players have shields for reasons above. I prefer a more direct activation by the player rather than an indirect activation. Some pros and cons:

Shields - Pros:

  • Player may have more confidence in risky behavior because of inherent protection.
  • Players have a 'second-chance' at winning game, which adds a bit to quality of life game elements. 
  • The gambling aspect is a good way to tell a story. (come-back mechanic & May excite players when a low chance happens).

Cons:

  • Player targeting other player with shields loses confidence in powers. (power does not work as described which may confuse players)
  • Player targeted by power with shields can claim being attacked if the player survives. This depends on the game entirely, but usually when you live an attack and you know about it, it gives you leverage to prove your innocence. 
  • No players really choose to activate the dice roll. Power is a passive which relies on the MC and puts to blame major outcomes to the MC and not the players.
  • Shield outcomes outweighs and reduce value in abilities, powers, and actions by the player.

I think the majority of randomness should be by the players and just a small amount by the MC. Depending on how information is given to the players throughout the game, the game has an amount of randomness. The more information, the less random. A good balance - I think is somewhere, where the game rewards players for being right with more information, and less with wrong decisions. This has a snowball effect, but that's where gambling comes in. A random outcome activated by a player, which has potential to lead the player to better information if their current path is not working. I think a good game means a game where you really have to work at things and get things right. At the end of the day, the win is meaningless unless it felt that you or your team were responsible for your own win. I know this because whenever I win a game because of a random dice roll, I kinda feel good, but cheap. A little sad for the opponent for working so hard. 

Well, this whole post is for games that release game-logs. I think if you don't release game-logs, it is fine.

I stopped thinking here.

Edited by Bed

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