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We're nearing the end of Day 5 of Turf War, and I think there's been enough time for everyone to start to get a feel for the game. I've spoken to a few of you one-on-one, and I'd like to hear from everyone. What are your thoughts so far? Have you had any particularly memorable moments?

 

I, of course, have enjoyed the social element and the comics made by Lixyl and Sinical. There was a great moment where I landed an unexpected avenge kill on Red. And there was the terrifying moment when I saw that Red Team's CP in General Discussion had hit 300 seemingly out of nowhere.

 

I'm also starting to have some thoughts circulating about gameplay, but I'd prefer to keep those to myself until I've heard how you guys are seeing things. So, what are your guys' thoughts and feedback so far?

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Nerf Red Team plz

 

Doing all these maths has been fun, but without extreme coordination and activity they hardly even matter.

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I have no idea what is happening but I don't want King Lixyl to be disappointed in me so I keep doing stuff since it looks like its all about taking the most actions

Edited by Kirby-oh

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I have been left wondering what the point is to the damage fort command thing.

 

It's only half as effective as building...so why not just build your own. 

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I have been left wondering what the point is to the damage fort command thing.

 

It's only half as effective as building...so why not just build your own. 

Because breaking your stuff is waaay more fun

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I have been left wondering what the point is to the damage fort command thing.

 

It's only half as effective as building...so why not just build your own. 

Because breaking your stuff is waaay more fun

 

 

And this is why you're losing. :P

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I have been left wondering what the point is to the damage fort command thing.

 

It's only half as effective as building...so why not just build your own. 

 

Because you also shoot someone in the process.

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Doing all these maths has been fun, but without extreme coordination and activity they hardly even matter.

You don't think even the basic math aspects matter?

 

I have no idea what is happening but I don't want King Lixyl to be disappointed in me so I keep doing stuff since it looks like its all about taking the most actions

Does anyone else feel this way? On either point, whether it be the "no idea what's going on so I'm doing stuff" or the "it's just about taking the most actions"?

 

Maybe I should have read how this game works at some point..

Cel mentioned the same thing a couple of days ago, specifically that there's no in-game link to the How to Play guide. But yeah, Assault deals 5 damage to the opposing team's Fort, and it randomly shoots one of their players (if they have a player in the Area).

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Doing all these maths has been fun, but without extreme coordination and activity they hardly even matter.

You don't think even the basic math aspects matter?

 

I have no idea what is happening but I don't want King Lixyl to be disappointed in me so I keep doing stuff since it looks like its all about taking the most actions

Does anyone else feel this way? On either point, whether it be the "no idea what's going on so I'm doing stuff" or the "it's just about taking the most actions"?

 

Maybe I should have read how this game works at some point..

Cel mentioned the same thing a couple of days ago, specifically that there's no in-game link to the How to Play guide. But yeah, Assault deals 5 damage to the opposing team's Fort, and it randomly shoots one of their players (if they have a player in the Area).

 

Basically what Kirby said, all the calculations and math are fine for balancing the game and all, but it has nothing to do with who wins. Unless everyone is on the same page, you can't even factor team strategy into the equations. So, assuming a perfectly balanced game, whichever side takes more actions wins.

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I still need to try stuff, but the first game will come down to action quantity basically for sure in any game. The second one will go better.

I see that Red is winning. Not sure what part is contributing the most. I did a thing that looks like it earned some points to help win. I have a plan for my next move, might be a good one. I can see that the top blue soldier seems to have done twice as many things as I have, and I've been trying to pay attention, so I'm probably just slowly putting us further behind, since 2:1 most likely overcomes any strategy. I won't be online for my cooldown tonight.

But I probably just don't understand what is going on. It's fun, going to keep playing and figure it out. Doesn't matter who wins anyway, just try to do tricky actions and talk about it. We need a red strategy thread.

Summary of feedback: I want a red strategy thread or something.

I probably got distracted halfway through the instructions with quals and finals. I will try to find it again. I don't know which thread it is in, though.

Edited by Kirby-oh

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Basically what Kirby said, all the calculations and math are fine for balancing the game and all, but it has nothing to do with who wins. Unless everyone is on the same page, you can't even factor team strategy into the equations. So, assuming a perfectly balanced game, whichever side takes more actions wins.

I'm still not sure how I want to reply to this yet. Perhaps a minimalist approach will be best.

 

Every time a player is disabled, that team effectively loses one action's worth of points (since Respawn/Heal isn't worth points).

Conquering Areas grants a large point bonus to the conquering team.

Each team gains points based on the number of players they have tagged.

Unused items are worth no points (even though actions were spent to make them).

 

I still need to try stuff, but the first game will come down to action quantity basically for sure in any game. The second one will go better.

I see that Red is winning. Not sure what part is contributing the most. I did a thing that looks like it earned some points to help win. I have a plan for my next move, might be a good one. I can see that the top blue soldier seems to have done twice as many things as I have, and I've been trying to pay attention, so I'm probably just slowly putting us further behind, since 2:1 most likely overcomes any strategy. I won't be online for my cooldown tonight.

But I probably just don't understand what is going on. It's fun, going to keep playing and figure it out. Doesn't matter who wins anyway, just try to do tricky actions and talk about it. We need a red strategy thread.

Summary of feedback: I want a red strategy thread or something.

I probably got distracted halfway through the instructions with quals and finals. I will try to find it again. I don't know which thread it is in, though.

Kirby, you do realize that you're on Blue Team, right? I'm a little confused by your comments wanting to see a Red Team thread (though I want to see it too, as I'm finding the comics and Blue Team thread to be some of the best part of playing).

 

How to Play Guide: http://sparkbomb.com/sparkwiki/cat/games/turf-war

There are a few more things I kind of want to say in response to each of you, but... for now I want to keep seeing the first impressions and such.

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Yeah, I picked blue. I can't see how many actions they have done, just blue, but it shows me lagging behind most of blue

I want the red thread for the reasons you said, exactly.

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Reading over how other's are viewing the game, I feel like I can prioritize my suggestions. 

 

1. There needs to be a simpler way to learn the game. The game play guide is long. While those who want to understand detailed strategy will benefit, most of us really would do well from a much shorter summary. Cool down times and what each action does in a bullet point format would likely be an effective tl;dr.

 

2. Communication needs to be improved. Both public smack-talk like the Blue Discussion thread and private strategy threads. I suggest locked threads that only teammates are given access to. Perhaps when team leaders are chosen, they can be given control over that. Or we could have PMs with higher member limits and each team would have a PM together. Something to allow coordination and community interaction.

 

3. Cooldown times are not as easy to fit into a normal schedule as I think they were intended to be. I don't know how to fix this. I rather doubt there is a way. One thought I had was to allow 2 movements in succession. So that I can move to a place, act, then move again before having to take a 4 hour CD. For me, at least, this would allow me to position myself to take longer CD actions at base every night before bed. As it is, I'm often finding a CD to end at 4 am or something similarly annoying. Again, not sure how to fix this, but I think it's limiting some of us more than anticipated.

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3. Cooldown times are not as easy to fit into a normal schedule as I think they were intended to be. I don't know how to fix this. I rather doubt there is a way. One thought I had was to allow 2 movements in succession. So that I can move to a place, act, then move again before having to take a 4 hour CD. For me, at least, this would allow me to position myself to take longer CD actions at base every night before bed. As it is, I'm often finding a CD to end at 4 am or something similarly annoying. Again, not sure how to fix this, but I think it's limiting some of us more than anticipated.

Going to reply specifically to this one for now. I'm a bit confused as to how this would make a difference. Both actions and movement have a 4 hour CD (under normal circumstances). Right now, the common strategy is Move to Base -> Invent White Paint or Invent V-Barrel depending on whether 8 or 12 hours is preferred (and which item would benefit the team more). I don't understand how Move to Area -> Action in Area -> Move to Base makes any kind of difference in this scenario. Am I misunderstanding you?

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Okay, so after thinking about how to best put this into words. Actions in this game lack impact and reward.

 

(Almost) all actions in this game give points so it doesn't seem to matter a whole lot what you do but more how many things you do. "But wait, if you disable somebody they miss a turn!" That is true, but pretty irrelevant. One missed turn is pretty much nothing. I'm sure most people miss one to three potential turns a day from not being on 24 hours a day. Disabling somebody falls well within the variance of activity levels.

 

I mean, if you go to paintballing and you shoot somebody, they're out. You have instant gratification and have clearly contributed to your team winning.

This game does not have either of those. In this game, shooting somebody means that sometimes you contributed 1/6th of the effort to make somebody miss a single turn.

It just feels like this game could have boiled down to "Press this button to score your team a point" on a four hour cooldown and whichever team pressed it the most ended up winning.

 

Unfortunately any suggestions I have would require a major rework of core mechanics and probably not an option. But a tl;dr version would be to have all actions have more obvious impact, make the winning objectives more clear and add more counterplay options. One possible thing you could do is make area control a more temporary thing and make it the key goal. Scrap the current point system and just rewards points every X time period where a team has a majority (non-disabled) presence in an area. This adds more obvious strategy and makes disabling a bigger deal.

 

 

All that said, I have been enjoying this. But most the enjoyment has come from interaction away from the game rather than the game itself. I don't think that's something that will work long term though, and considering the effort that has gone into this, I am assuming you don't want this to be a thing that dies off after two or three games.

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I have been having fun--and I honestly hadn't even considered going back to the base and doing a long cooldown action at the end of my day, so that's going to help me out a bit.

 

I do think a little bit more feedback might be helpful.  On any action, indicate how many points the action accumulated for your team, as well as for yourself.  On a shoot/assault action, maybe a range of remaining hit points remaining.  If you get shot, maybe a range of ammo remaining.  (Both ranges with the actual amount randomized within?).  Maybe the shots don't always do 10, but are slightly randomized to make up for that.

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I feel like 60 is too much HP too many sparks for the game's pace. My suggestion would be to decrease action timer to 3-3.5 hours per action, reduce max HP sparks to 50 and/or have disabling shots award a point bonus to the shooter.

 

I am having fun, though. I like how there's a way to avoid revenge shots but it takes up your mobility for a turn. I'd like to see more inventions though, maybe a team-wide project that awards bonuses to the entire team when completed, but requires a hefty turn requirement. For example, something that increases regular shoot damage to 15 and takes 100 hours in total to build but every team member can chip in 4 or 8 hours at a time.

Edited by Roxeon

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As I said, I don't know if adding an extra move is the right idea. Maybe shortening the cooldown time? Just something to allow me to do more in a single day. While having CDs does allow me to not worry about not being able to be watching the game constantly, they also stop me from being able to act when I have free time. If I have time now, time three hours from now, and then no time until bed time, I get stuck not really being able to do as much as I'd like. Naturally, this argument could shorten the CD until it was too short. Therefore, I don't know what the right solution is. 

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I must admit I am fairly well lost.  I've just been moving randomly.  The only action out of the base I've had listed that I could do (I thought) was shoot (or maybe other things were there and I missed it.

 

I am a little frustrated in that I don't really know what I should be doing.  I did read the guide, but it tells me (sort of) what I can do but doesn't tell me anything about what strategically works best.

 

Another factor is that I agree that it would be nice to have more feedback.  I know who is winning, but I don't know anything more.

 

In short, I am mostly lost about what I should be doing as I move around.

 

As far as the CD thing, I don't really like the every 4 hours thing.  When I have time to play (and think about it), I find it frustrating to be able to do only 1 thing.  On the other hand, when I'm busy and don't have time to log on every 4 hours then I feel I'm paying way too heavy a penalty for not being able to log on.

 

I do understand why there is a limitation on actions, of course.  Perhaps allow performing more actions (not a lot more), but with a greater cooldown if you do might work.  That is you could hypothetically do an action every 4 hours or do 2 actions and have an 8 hour cooldown (not necessarily saying those are the right numbers, just giving a concept).  My sense is that the CD might should be a little shorter.

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That would be really hard for game balance since it would allow you to more easily burst down a target and flee without chance of being harmed. With two big paintballs, you could do 40 damage to a target in an instant, combined with an avenge and that's 50.

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I just remembered something that I forgot to say I like. I really like how my activity log is a history of what I've seen and it follows me from area to area. While it would be nice to see what happened in an area before I was there, I think that can be achieved when we use our overlapping logs to compare with teammates.

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