Blacjak

Gunslingers

307 posts in this topic

I don't think starting a duel would be in your best interest right now Rock. But if you really want to, there's basically nothing anyone can do to stop you. :P

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2 hours ago, Rexozord said:

On a new note, and this is especially relevant since we know at least one person is planning on shooting tomorrow, I would like to know who, if you were forced to shoot someone right now, you would shoot. This is addressed to everyone.

Looks like I missed this the first time through.

I don't really have any strong leanings or reads on any players at the moment. If I was shooting from the hip, so to speak, I feel like the best choice would be either one of the most active players (you or Inu) given the Fame mechanic and its requirement in power use, or going after... I think Lion is the least active player? I hate to say this, because it goes against "conventional Werewolf wisdom," but the active players might be the best targets by merit of being the most dangerous. However, this comes from an assumption that baddie powers require the use of Fame and that there isn't another power like mine floating around where one (or more) baddies can gain Fame by alternate methods.

16 minutes ago, RocktheFox said:

By the way what actual is labour day all about?

I don't understand what you're asking. Labor Day the holiday?

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34 minutes ago, RocktheFox said:

In light of recent statements and with contemplating my own position so far a duel would be the best course of action. By the way what actual is labour day all about?

Labor Day is a US holiday on the first Monday in September. It's used by some to socially mark the end of "summer", and along those lines is used as a rule for wearing seasonal colors. True white is considered a summer color (as opposed to off-white colors like cream), and so an often-repeated social faux pas is "wearing white after Labor Day". This got exaggerated from a minor rule of thumb into imaginary fashion-police law because of very old comedy routines.

(This was posted after 3AM EST, so my edits shouldn't be relevant, but if they are, I apologize. The edits were responding to Rex/Rift below.)

Rex: Well, whoever he challenges to a duel could stop it by not accepting the duel.

Rift: I mentioned "wearing white after Labor Day" as part of an analogy. That's what he's asking about.

Edited by InuyashaOhki

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I'm bad at figuring out time zones. (Also, I've been gone all day. This was a bad week for me to participate, but I am trying.) It looks like I've missed my chance to send in a list for this High Noon, but that isn't too big a deal. Next time. 

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Sorry about being late again guys, I passed out counting posts. My job requires that I flip my sleep schedule by around 12 hours halfway through every week.

It's High Noon! The next High Noon will occur at 5am Eastern, Saturday the 29th.

Post Counts:

Player 1 2
1. Sinical 2 5
2. Inu 5 4
3. Cel 1 3
4. Traj 1 2
5. Rex 5 5
6. Rift 3 3
7. Rock 3 1
8. Lion 1 2
9. Zilary 1 1

Just like the previous call for High Noon, no one was brave enough to step outside. Tumbleweeds blew through the town in an endless cycle, like phantoms forced to wander the earth. Suddenly, the door to the Sheriff's office flew open and the Sheriff made an announcement:

"Listen up ya'll, Inuyasha is my new Deputy and you'd do well to pay him mind."

Sinical hands Inu a Badge and a Bullet, then shakes his hand.

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*Inu saunters around town, proudly showing off his badge like Adric, hoping there are no Cybermen around.*

I have inquired what the super-secret powers of the Badge are, and received an answer. They're exactly what the tin star I got from Silver Dollar City as a kid granted me then.

We're 2 days in with no visible power use out of anyone but the Sheriff. It seems like the villains are fine with letting us wait, which is disconcerting, or they're afraid of shooting first. I don't know if we should risk delaying further.

Zilary likes this

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Sneaky from-work post on my phone, so sorry it's a bit short.

I plan to shoot Rift, Rex, or Inu at my lunch break. Most likely Rift or Rex. These three are the most active, and therefore the most likely to have gathered enough Fame to be more powerful. I am inclined, like Sinical, to trust Inu based on behavior. I feel like Rex, for not wanting to discuss volunteering, has fixated on that way too much. Rift also seemed to dismiss it as a valuable line of inquiry and then simply dropped it. I consider this behavior more pro-town because he's not taking up space and time fixating on something he considers less useful. So I'll probably shoot Rex, unless good arguments are made for one of the other two as a target.

Also, regarding weee's suggestion that Sinical may not be innocent - I think he's more likely neutral than an OMT. An impartial judge, as it were. The concept of Sherrif wouldn't make sense as an OMT since the level of authority he's given would risk breaking the game too quickly.

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@Rexozord

I want some further information about other roles in the game without going full claim mode and giving other people needless information. Please answer the following in terms of who my main in LoL was, if you remember. This is about the only question I can think of where only one person might know the answer..

Is your role ability?

A: Non existent.

B: Obviously related to a traditional role, but weaker.

C: Obviously related to a traditional role, and similar strength.

D: Unique to the game mode.

 

Please use Udyr, Annie, Nocturne and Lux as potential answers. 

So for example, if you thought my main was Annie and the answer was D you'd post something like.

A: Lux

B: Nocturne

C: Udyr

D: Annie

 

(Inb4 you don't remember at all and this was a giant waste of time)

Edited by Sinical

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3. All Players have 3 HP each, a Gun, and a Bullet. The Sheriff is confirmed innocent, and starts with an additional Vest as well as the Ability to Deputize Players, granting them a Bullet.

It says that the Sheriff is a confirmed innocent. Can the Sheriff deputized anybody regardless of alignment? As in, eventually, all the players would be deputized...if the Sheriff wanted to, that is.

What are the advantages of shooting someone as opposed to a duel? I'm guessing shooting is less effective as it only wounds the person, while a duel comes with items in addition to both players losing health. If you feel strongly about someone being a baddie and de-equipping them of items, I guess you could use a duel instead of shooting them.

As far as who I would shoot, sad to say, but since activity does correlate with gathering resources in this game and resources means abilities, I would say those who have posted the most...which would be Inu, Rex, or Rift. As far as baddie vibes go, I don't feel super strongly about any of the 3 of them aside from just post count. I'm also assuming that we probably shouldn't shoot the Sheriff. Based on potential baddie vibes or weirdness alone, I guess RocktheFox, maybe? I know we shouldn't sit much longer because doing so means the baddies will acquire resources at the same rate we are.

The way I see it, there will be a massive shoot out towards the end once people acquire a comfortable enough amount of resources to start firing.

I can also see a "Resistance" table top game approach to this, but it can be very risky...send 3 people on "missions" to shoot someone and see who follows through their word by people claiming the next day who got shot. Or even to see who they do not shoot. That can be indicative of a baddie. I'm not saying this is the best strategy, but throwing it out there as a possible option, especially early in the game, everyone here is still at full health.

In other news, do we have any investigative powers? If so, why have they not say anything to clear people? Or do you think the investigative powers are more like watching/tracking and no one has done anything each night?

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Sinical, I know the answer, and I'm fine sharing. I know you didn't ask me specifically, but I need to do something to get more focused on the game.

 

A. Nocturne

B. Udyr

C. Lux

D. Annie

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Oh right yeah, thanks for the answer Traj.

 

So in other news.

I PUBLICLY CHALLENGE RIFT TO A DUEL.

 

Accepting means you have to shoot me and as such is an admission of guilt.

Fleeing and leaving your items would be the best strategy for you. This is just based on a minor hunch honestly and seems like a much less extreme method of "execution"

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Oh, I missed Rex's question as well (comes from following on mobile the majority of the game, I suppose.)

If I had to pick someone to shoot, right this second... I think it'd be Cel, purely on mechanics. According to Blacjak's post with the number of Fame-earning posts people have done in it, Cel has just enough Fame this High Noon to be able to use an ability. That puts her in the category, to me, of "active enough to participate without drawing too much attention to herself by being too active", if that makes sense. I know it seems a bit hypocritical given I've done basically the exact same thing, but that's where my bullet would go.

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3 hours ago, Celairiel said:

I plan to shoot Rift, Rex, or Inu at my lunch break. Most likely Rift or Rex. These three are the most active, and therefore the most likely to have gathered enough Fame to be more powerful. I am inclined, like Sinical, to trust Inu based on behavior. I feel like Rex, for not wanting to discuss volunteering, has fixated on that way too much. Rift also seemed to dismiss it as a valuable line of inquiry and then simply dropped it. I consider this behavior more pro-town because he's not taking up space and time fixating on something he considers less useful. So I'll probably shoot Rex, unless good arguments are made for one of the other two as a target.

Also, regarding weee's suggestion that Sinical may not be innocent - I think he's more likely neutral than an OMT. An impartial judge, as it were. The concept of Sherrif wouldn't make sense as an OMT since the level of authority he's given would risk breaking the game too quickly.

Shooting someone because they're potentially more powerful doesn't make any sense. Let's say you shoot and kill myself, Inu, or Rift. Let's say the person you shoot and kill is innocent. Congrats, you've killed one of the three innocents in the game who possibly could have acquired a second bullet. Of course, one bullet won't kill the player, but weakening an innocent is just as bad (possibly worse) because we get no information and that player can more easily be killed by baddies further down the line. Also, doesn't it make more sense to target less active players? So far we've seen no proactive attacks from the baddies. If shooting when unsure is a good idea at all, it can only be so because the baddies have strong abilities that allow them to deal damage or gain Fortune faster than the innocents, and we certainly have seen no sign of the former (the later, I would assume, would be invisible).

I think your fixation argument is very weak. Sure, I discussed why it's not good analysis at length. I did this because the person who made the analysis called my arguments into question (extremely aggressively, might I add) and others tended to agree with him (and in this case, others means you and Sinical). It seemed appropriate to elaborate. Additionally, it was hardly the only thing I discussed. I brought up all sorts of other talking points that the majority of players (including Traj, anti-characteristically), have ignored. It's also ironic that you're using a similar argument against me that I used against Inu, and yet you agreed with Inu regarding volunteer analysis.

@InuyashaOhki Does is bother you at all that Cel is specifically choosing possible shot targets based on post-count? If not, why?

@Sinical Unfortunately I don't remember what your main in LoL was. I don't mind answering that question publicly if you think that it would be worth the risk incurred.

@Zilary While it is possible the baddies have some mechanic that allows them to gain resources as fast as innocents, the vanilla rules do not allow for that. There are more innocents than baddies, so the total amount of Fame and Fortune that innocents gain each day will be higher than the amount baddies gain. Also, even if we have strong investigative powers, only four people had enough Fame to use an ability Day 1: myself, Rift, Inu, and Rock. By Day 2, everyone had enough to use an ability except you. So it's possible that the person has not gotten their result yet or that the result is not useful enough to put on thread. I do like your proposition regarding Resistance. Unfortunately, it seems like some players may ignore consensus and shoot independently. I think that's anti-town, but we'll see what happens.

Hmm, the duel is somewhat risky if he accepts, but it's not fundamentally a bad idea (although if he's innocent, it will hurt to lose his bullet).

EDIT: Crossed with Traj. Well, I guess my above mention of his ignoring my questions is now irrelevant. :P

Edited by Rexozord

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As far as full claiming goes - well, I suppose it's an idea. I tend to fall on the side of "this game is too experimental for it to work well", though, personally. I'd imagine there are several roles tailored specifically to this game's mechanics as opposed to being general Werewolf-esque roles, and as such I think it'd be fairly difficult to determine alignment based on those roles. For example, say there's a role out there that determines when in that five-hour window High Noon is going to be? I suppose that's vaguely governor-esque in that it has to do with execution, in a loose sense, but whether that role would be good or evil... I really have no idea.

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So hopefully tonight, there will be a little more activity as people's post counts have them accrue Fame for them to use. Maybe we'll get some more clues tomorrow? As for my lack of activity, Halloween-week-social-life and my brain being broken as to High Noon time (thinking it being 24 hours after when it actually is), leaves me not as useful right now, I know.

As far as full claiming goes, I don't see why not. However, I am wary that any role can be swayed to look good or evil, as Traj has mentioned. We are all more or less familiar that the baddies will have innocent-sounding roles and powers, so I guess we won't know how to discern that until everyone makes a claim. I can't think of a specific role off the top of my head that would guarantee someone is completely innocent.

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4 hours ago, Celairiel said:

Rift also seemed to dismiss it as a valuable line of inquiry and then simply dropped it.

You're referring to the volunteerism? I never said a word about it. I silently dismissed it because I hadn't noticed it in the signup thread, and I was inclined to agree with Rex's point that it would be a naive mechanic to include and a non-factor in any well-designed game. (That said, there has been at least one successful game where players were allowed to choose their alignments at the beginning of the game. However, this was done once the game started, and it was available to all players. It was somewhat lucky that the mechanic ended up working out, though a secondary mechanic may have helped to ensure its success. Tagging @Mike since I referenced Wheel of Misfortune.)

 

I FLEE from Sinical's challenge. (Nothing in the rules seems to specify that I can actually declare a flee, rather that I just silently don't accept, but this seems like the most practical way to go about it.)

Also, regarding theorizing about Sinical's alignment: When MC's can't be trusted, it creates serious issues. (Some games can explicitly question trust, but in those cases it still has to be specified in some way.) I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility that Sinical could be an alignment other than stated, but short of a fully confirmed non-Sinical innocent explicitly stating otherwise, I'll ride to the end of the game on the assumption that Sinical is innocent.

Incidentally, I think Sinical should have started issuing Duel challenges on Day 1, given he was unlikely to die and could have started amassing power, but that's no longer here nor there (and probably wasn't an obvious strategy at the time). As long as none of the rest of us are shooting, no one player should have the resources to kill Sinical.

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1 hour ago, Trajectory said:

If I had to pick someone to shoot, right this second... I think it'd be Cel, purely on mechanics. According to Blacjak's post with the number of Fame-earning posts people have done in it, Cel has just enough Fame this High Noon to be able to use an ability. That puts her in the category, to me, of "active enough to participate without drawing too much attention to herself by being too active", if that makes sense. I know it seems a bit hypocritical given I've done basically the exact same thing, but that's where my bullet would go.

I actually like this reasoning. Not because it targets me, but because (as Rex pointed out, but quoting isn't as easy from a phone) it gets the balance between active enough to be dangerous but not attacking because of activity - which was NOT what I wanted to do.

Rex, I accept your assessment of my argument against you. However, your behavior still bothers me for an undefined reason. I thought it was the hyper-focus on one topic, but reviewing in brief shows it as more balanced than it stood out in my mind. I still find you suspect, but I have to admit to relying mostly on gut feeling. And I know my gut feeling isn't historically the most accurate.

These two arguments, combined with my lunch getting pushed back at lunch means that I'm not going to shoot at this time, as I had planned. I may hold off today, simply due to having been less able to read than I expected. But I still think we should get shots fired. Sinical's challenge to Rift is enough for me to be willing to wait one more day, except that I work and have a Halloween party tomorrow. So I'll be relatively inactive.

 

x'd with Rift:

Yeah, that's what I thought, but then I incorrectly thought you'd said something about the argument. But your silent dismissal was clearly intentional, so my point is still valid.

Edited by Celairiel

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Hmm a few things. Half of the week I need to be up in the morning, and the other half I have to work late at night. So a rigid deadline is impossible for me.

As for FLEEing, it's basically the difference between you running out of a room, or running out of a room while yelling "I FLEE!"

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I recon, its time for a reckoning.

Because the time to cut and run I.E. flee is off the shelf and Cel's got some targets and she need to be stopped so Cel i'm calling you out so draw partner.  

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12 minutes ago, RocktheFox said:

I recon, its time for a reckoning.

Because the time to cut and run I.E. flee is off the shelf and Cel's got some targets and she need to be stopped so Cel i'm calling you out so draw partner.  

If you are Challenging Cel to a Duel, please post this in bold.

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challenge Cel to a duel, pistols at dawn, 10 paces each.

Edited by RocktheFox

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On the plus side, Rock and Cel's duel won't resolve until tomorrow night (er, tomorrow noon). Which creates an interesting question: three of us (not named Rift but including Rock and Cel) could shoot Rock or Cel, killing one and preventing the duel. As far as resources go, this would currently end with a net loss of 2 bullets (the dead's bullet, unless used, and the extra bullet needed to kill), as well as the life of one player. It also has to be assumed that both will have the resources to purchase a second Bullet each before their duel.

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3 hours ago, Sinical said:

B: Obviously related to a traditional role, but weaker.

That one. 

1 hour ago, Rexozord said:

Does is bother you at all that Cel is specifically choosing possible shot targets based on post-count? If not, why?

I see her points. They're two little devil horns sticking out on either side of her head. <_< I'm also not happy about Rift's anti-activity argument along the same lines, but I'm losing my temper again already, so I'm trying not to go off on them like I did you.

I've honestly lost a lot of interest after our argument, and it's impacting my analysis. It's taken me this long to really process the claim argument you made. I still don't agree with a full reveal, but you suggesting it, and other things you said should have had me asking different questions sooner.

---

@Rexozord I speculate that you have a win condition that includes surviving to end (with another, arbitrary goal to accomplish along the way) and nothing that actually requires you to kill anyone. This is why you assume 2 villains and a neutral. { Confirm | Deny | Dodge Question }

 

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2 minutes ago, InuyashaOhki said:

 

4 hours ago, Sinical said:

B: Obviously related to a traditional role, but weaker.

That one. 

Sinical wasn't as clear as he could have been, but he was trying to use a code so that the answer to this question wouldn't be obvious (thus the second set of League-related answers). So if your answer was N, you then include L. Apple, M Banana, N Potato, O Starfruit and have your answer for N be Apple if Apple was Sinical's main. (Or favorite fruit/vegetable, in my food-based example.)

3 minutes ago, InuyashaOhki said:

I'm also not happy about Rift's anti-activity argument along the same lines

I'm not happy about it either. This game's mechanics exacerbate the point, but it's definitely something to consider with currency-generating games in the future. The more active you are, the more powerful you become, and the more potential the player gets if they're a baddie. It certainly works against the problem that all of us perceive. Meanwhile, right now, we're stuck in the middle of a game where we're considering the short-term problem of threats vs the long-term problem of activity.

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I suppose it would be best to point out that I will be gone for almost all of Saturday (tomorrow). I'll be checking in on my phone regularly, but don't expect me to be as verbose.

I don't think it's useful to speculate that Sinical might be a baddie at this point. There's no reason to suspect that and it's self-destructive since he's a major source of bullets for the innocents (well, hopefully for the innocents).

Cel, any response to the contradiction that your argument on who would be the most productive to shoot and your argument on why shooting now is beneficial poses?

I don't see why we should shoot to weaken either Rock or Cel. Cel can still flee from the duel tomorrow. Honestly, it's in her best interest to give her bullet to Sinical tonight if she is not planning on dueling Rock. If she doesn't... well, that's fairly suspicious unless she does want to duel Rock.

At this point, I think the full claim might not be beneficial any more. Part of the reason it could have worked is that it could have forced the baddies to potentially need to fake claim, which is much harder to do under pressure. It's much less likely that a baddie would make a mistake after the idea has been floating around for so long.

Interesting speculation. But it's based on an incorrect premise. I suggested that there would be two Ruffians plus at least one other non-innocent role. It wouldn't surprise me to see two neutrals or one OMT (or potentially one OMT and one neutral, but that's pushing it). As for the direct question, I'm innocent. I don't see the difference between denying and dodging the question, though. A true innocent or a Ruffian (or an OMT) would deny because that doesn't describe them. A neutral would deny because people (including me) love to execute neutrals (although now that I think about it, because this game is so much about resource management, that might not be a good strategy here).

@Sinical I will reiterate that if you want me to answer your question, I will. However, I have thought of a question for you, and it is somewhat sensitive, so if you do not want to answer publicly, just say that you don't want to answer or ignore the question entirely. Here it is: did someone give you a bullet on Day 2?

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