InuyashaOhki

"Happy" Little Trees signups

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, thezodiac said:

What would have happened had I grave robbed Bed that time?

Nothing. I was very confused why you were trying to take power from someone stated not to have one in a game where I was revealing everything upfront.  Apparently no one believed I could make a game without any surprise twists. Given the imbalance, they were right, but I did try. :P

1 hour ago, Celairiel said:

I think if rez protection had been 24, not 48 hours, the game would have been balanced decently, since processing order did work in our favor in most cases.

Y'all said that privately too. How are you getting 48 hours out of what I'm getting 24?

 

The roleclaim part was where I think everything fell down hardest. If I'd told the villains which roles would go unclaimed, and said so in the role description section, Weee asking for roleclaims wouldn't have been a game-ending move. Knowing how she plays, I'm sure she still would have asked, but she'd have to sort through each, figure out which ones could be proved and couldn't, and then executed a few more innocents first.

I'm actually a bit surprised so many people thought I wouldn't include a dreamer. I figured my modifying the dreamer would be a big tell it was in the game, just like my overpowering the bus driver would be a big tell it wouldn't be. I was a bit disappointed Zodiac didn't take that power. Part of the point was to give him something to do the first night and make the graverobber a little more powerful. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

24  hours of protection, 24  additional hours before night would hit and we could kill them.

Regarding finding Bed:  we had to attack him to convert him.  So  I don't know how quickly that would reasonably have happened. Bed  was also our heir.  If he were found and then Rex  had died,  he would have become spokes for the team. As it was, Rex  died last so it never shifted spokes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I played my role crap first couple days. There were extenuating circumstances tho. However, I was pleased with my analysis... called Rex and blacjak evil 😎. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Celairiel said:

24  hours of protection, 24  additional hours before night would hit and we could kill them.

Regarding finding Bed:  we had to attack him to convert him.  So  I don't know how quickly that would reasonably have happened. Bed  was also our heir.  If he were found and then Rex  had died,  he would have become spokes for the team. As it was, Rex  died last so it never shifted spokes.

Oh, I didn't know an attack would have made me "found," since I always thought it was possible that wolves can attack wolves (some crazy high-risk protection play). I figured since there was a wolf that dreams, that would be the best way to be "found" or a wolf team member confirms me... which would be me revealing myself to a possible team mate or making it known that im a liar only to my team mates.  Even after the game I get things wrong. :(

Edited by Bed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I enjoyed the game and liked the setup where you listed roles, but listed extra roles that weren't in the game.  That added some uncertainty and did to some extent give evil players something they could potentially claim.  The problem being, as Inu notes, that they didn't know what roles were not in the game.

I do agree the game was imbalanced.  The reason as I see it was not so much having an alignment dreamer -- after all he could wrongly clear someone 25% of the time.  It was in creating a set up where you had the possibility of likely guaranteed confirmed innocents. (By the way could we get a list of who held what role.  I still don't know what role anyone had who didn't die).

As soon as someone died and was rezzed, in a game that didn't have conversions, there was no reason not to roleclaim to the innocent player.  I never thought for a moment there might be a silent conversion because of the fact that roles were revealed.  While I know not every detail was there, I think I would have been justifiably angry if there had been a conversion.  If conversions are a possibility it should be stated.

Ways that I can see that would have balanced it more:

1. Inu's idea to tell the wolves which roles weren't in the game.  I think that would have helped a lot.

2. Decouple roles from the evil part.  That is give the list of roles and, for example, show Blacjaks's role with only the dreaming.  Then at the end say that there are 3 wolves and an OMT and they could hold any of the roles that you had listed.  FWIW, that is the option I probably would pick.

3. Allow for the possibility of conversion of the player rezzed.  Admittedly, that would have changed other things about the structure so might not have worked for this game. But, I think this possibility in most games is what keeps the rezzed player from just gathering info.

4. Disallow private PMs.  If using the structure that was used in this game, I think you could do it without any balance problems by simply banning private PMs.  Another possibility (and maybe one I'll try somehow) would be to ban only the rezzed player from private PMs.  That is a player rezzed would not be able to have private communications.  (I might actually try this one).

I do not think shortening rez protection would have really helped.  I think the length of it was fine.

Oh, another thing I liked was the dreaming info that Blacjak got back.  I like the idea of dreams that give some information but aren't pure alignment dreams.  I hadn't seen this version before and would be interested in trying something similar for an innocent dreamer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, thezodiac said:

Yeah the game was a bit imbalanced. But the villains also had some bad luck with the protect Night 1 and the wolves killing the sociopath.

Blac and Rex joining a bandwagon on very poor evidence didn't help, however. They gave themselves away for me.

@Rexozord I do like the play of  putting suspicion on a team mate however. That's so something I'd do 😊. Blac done the same...

Not gonna lie, I was fishing for the rezzer when I killed UrG (I was pretty sure allowing Weee to be rezzed would doom our chances of winning).

I think the evidence was completely reasonable. Of course, I also didn't think a protector existed in the set-up at that point (and I also happened to know NPM was a disabler), so you were my only reasonable suspect. I'd argue that in that situation, 7 or 8 out of ten times the accused would be the baddie. It just wasn't this time (also, if I wasn't baddie, I might have actually changed my vote after the claim, even with the weird plan to graverob the traitor... honestly, I thought that was less suspicious than other portrayed on thread). (Apparently, my team also new that you didn't have a lethal power thanks to blacjak's role, but I somehow skipped that result, so I honestly thought you were the OMT for most of the day.) But yeah, I did take the chance to distance myself from blacjak at that point (pretty ironic that you thought I was setting up the execution for the following day, though).

4 hours ago, InuyashaOhki said:

Y'all said that privately too. How are you getting 48 hours out of what I'm getting 24?

I'm actually a bit surprised so many people thought I wouldn't include a dreamer. I figured my modifying the dreamer would be a big tell it was in the game, just like my overpowering the bus driver would be a big tell it wouldn't be. I was a bit disappointed Zodiac didn't take that power. Part of the point was to give him something to do the first night and make the graverobber a little more powerful. 

It was "48" hours of protection because of when rezzing happened during the cycle. We could not try to preemptively target dead players to kill them the night after they were rezzed, and we could not kill them the night after that. Technically, given the order of events and if you didn't specifically disallow it (not sure if anyone asked), dead players could submit lists and execute their role immediately after being rezzed. In practice, it was bad because we had no way to disrupt cleared innocents (completely cleared, no chance of a rez-con or the wolves having a convert), so once rezzing happened, a full claim was inevitable.

I guessed that having the tracker in the game would make it less likely the dreamer would be in the game. Honestly, the amount of investigation and psuedo-investigation (kill disruption) in this game was insane (Nerfed Dreamer, Tracker, Disabler, Scrambler, Jailer and Protector, that I know of). Our List Control tool was very powerful, but... all that on top of two rezzes is pretty nuts to try to chew through as a 3+1 baddie team, much less an OMT.

56 minutes ago, Trajectory said:

Why was Smile killed N1 by the wolves? Was it because Cel was evil?

Smile was killed Night 1 because she was on the list (fourth, I believe) and Exile scrambled me Night 1. Honestly, I should (well, easily could, if I couldn't talk my way free) have been executed Day 2, but no one mentioned the possibility that the role scrambler had hit the Wolf spokes, and I sure wasn't going to bring it up. But anyway, I think that if I was innocent, I would have at least given it a 50/50 chance of being intentionally randomized by the baddies or being scrambled by the list scrambler (probably weighted more toward the scrambler if I knew the role existed in the game).

EDIT: Oh, one other thing on the subject of rez protection. I don't like it in general. If other protection mechanisms exist in the game (e.g. a protector), I don't think there's much call for rez-protection. I especially don't like the exact length of rez-protection being posted to thread, because that tells the protector exactly when the rezzed player becomes vulnerable (I think it's fine for the baddies and/or rezzer to know ahead of time if desired).

Edited by Rexozord

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not killed player roles:

NPM-Disabler

Lion-Necromancer

Zilary-Veteran

Exiled-Scrambler

Ash-Protector

 

I didn't have the option of disabling communication, since the goal was to give newbies the opportunity to be helped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the list.  I had been wondering about some of them. Oh I understand why you didn't disable communications in this game, just musing about alternative ways to balance in a game with rezzes but no conversions.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's okay, I think the game would have played out the same way whether you'd gotten your result on Blacjak right or not. Since three people were claiming Dreamer, we pretty much needed to kill two of you :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now